10 Comments
User's avatar
Logos's avatar
Feb 3Edited

“Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish.” - John 11:50

Did the church leaders really act any different than Caiaphas?

Pr. Mark Schroeder's avatar

In the small catechism, Fr. Luther begins with the 10 Commandments and their meanings…in this world, in nations, cultures and societies. It is all quite spiritual. How can we not stand up to tyranny for the sake of the elect?

Pr. Mark Schroeder's avatar

One more: “anxious about tyranny, preoccupied with civil liberties, resistant to global technocratic moral regimes, suspicious of state power, and unwilling to accept ecclesial quietism as a Christian virtue” describes a Christian nationalist in the article. The label sure describes this Lutheran and this American.

GERHARD MUNDINGER's avatar

St Paul in His approach ( Acts21 and following) before the centurion, Ananias, Felix,Festus, Agrippa, uses existing civil and religious law to make his defense. He speaks boldly and faithfully of Christ, yet “ appeals “ to Caesar, apologizes to the high priest acknowledging his position of authority, catechizes Agrippa, Festus and Beatrice, and does so under regulatory restrictions of the State and pressure of the mob. He dies not promote “christian nationalism” even though he tells Agrippa that he would hope that Agrippa and everyone would believe in Christ. He lives in the certain hope of the eschaton , while making an argument that he has been treated unjustly by respectful use of the tools of the existing civil authority.

South of Brightmoor's avatar

"anxious about tyranny, preoccupied with civil liberties, resistant to global technocratic moral regimes, suspicious of state power, and unwilling to accept ecclesial quietism as a Christian virtue." - Might become my tagline. Accurate description. Don't see anything wrong with this worldview. A basic concept of Christian Nationalism, meaning our society runs best when Christians are heavily involved in it, is fantastic and good. When its ideas become utopian or equate Christianity to an ethnicity, is where it can be easily ruined. These two ideas are where the rats get into the building.

sjb's avatar

The 'Canadian' Interim

PJS's avatar

Excellent reporting. I'd only heard murmurs of what actually took place between LCC and Pastor Ristau.

Justin's avatar

One of the most tiring responses on issues of this sort are these short articles presuming to provide the "Lutheran" view or response on such and such topic. Theologians in both the LCMS and the LCC have done so with respect to Christian Nationalism, each invoking Stephen Wolfe's book without substantive critique, use straw men, and present no real foundation for their claim to speak for Lutheranism other than superficial, theological bromides. The men who call themselves theologians and do this should be embarrassed, but more importantly that these men are supposed to be leading theologians in our church bodies does not speak well of our church bodies. These men should just stop trying to burden the consciences of faithful Christians. And is it too much to ask that our church bodies at least not pile on when the world is doing so?

Dan C's avatar

Well, the week after George Floyd was killed we got a sermon about racism and why we should support BLM. Isn't supporting protests against draconian government control of religious services at least as worthy clergy support?

Eric Heinicke's avatar

The two kingdoms idea is abused whenever there is a plausible way to cast a matter of moral consequence as a matter of liberty to which God is indifferent, or wherever it is “safer” to err on the side of the government. A related topic: vaccine mandates. Parishioners were facing job losses and the best they got were crickets and an ivory tower shrug.