Higher Stakes Than Combat: Training Pastors for the Real Battle
The Gottesdienst Crowd welcomes back Jarryd Allison—former MARSOC officer and current software engineer—for a conversation with David Petersen on pastoral formation.
In this episode, the Gottesdienst Crowd welcomes back Jarryd Allison—former MARSOC officer and current software engineer—for a conversation with David Petersen on pastoral formation, accountability, and courage in the Office of the Ministry. Drawing on the rigor of special operations training, the panel raises necessary questions: If the eternal stakes of the ministry are higher, should the training and evaluation of pastors be more demanding? Why do nearly all seminarians graduate, yet so many pastors leave within the first years of ministry? Together they explore attrition, peer evaluation, ongoing training, lay responsibility, catechesis, and the need for humility, standards, and perseverance—arguing that the Church must recover a serious, formative approach to preparing men for the weight of preaching Christ, teaching the faith, and caring for souls.
Previous episode with Jarryd Allison.
Transcript
Jason Braaten: Welcome to the Gottesdiest Crowd, where we foster confessional integrity, the surgical preservation, and preaching that doesn’t stink. We believe that the historic liturgy of the divine service is more than mere cobwebs of antiquity. It is a true treasure of the church to be dusted off and brought down from the attic to be enjoyed. So let’s get dusting.
Welcome back to the Gottesdiest Crowd. This is Jason Braaten. Today we have back with us Dave Peterson. Welcome back, Dave.
Dave Peterson: Thank you.
Jason Braaten: And also Jarryd Allison. He is a former MARSOC Marine and currently a software engineer. Welcome back, Jarryd.
Jarryd Allison: Thanks so much for having me.
Why Compare Pastoral Training to Special Operations?
Jason Braaten: So, Jarryd, the last time I had you on, we were talking about the analogy of special forces training—particularly the evaluations that MARSOC puts candidates through—and what we might glean from that elite process and apply to the Office of the Ministry, especially the training of pastors.
Our attrition rate doesn’t look great. How do we evaluate candidates? What skills should we incorporate so that the men coming out of seminary are better prepared to face the battles—both external and internal—that they’re going to encounter?
Dave listened to it and, of course, overreacted like he does and wanted to have a conversation about how you’re wrong. No, that’s not what it was. Dave, what was your initial reaction?
Dave Peterson: I thought comparing the Office of the Ministry to MARSOC was a bit of an exaggeration. I’d be very happy if we were just regular Marines.
Jason Braaten: So we decided to put this conversation together to discuss that further.
The MARSOC Training Pipeline
Jason Braaten: Where I want to begin is with a brief history of what you did in MARSOC and what your training was like. Jarryd, could you take us through that?
Jarryd Allison: MARSOC is unique in that there’s no direct path to it. You can’t be a civilian and instantly become a MARSOC Marine. There’s a requirement of prior service.
It starts with Officer Candidate School, then The Basic School. After that you get your military occupation specialty. Mine was infantry officer, so I went through Infantry Officer Course, then intelligence school.
IOC is really the pinnacle of training. You shoot guns, live in the woods, learn to fight. It’s miserable—little sleep, rain, constant evaluation—but you’re also having a great time learning critical skills.
After that, I went to Afghanistan, then to Assessment and Selection. The first four weeks are preparation: swimming, workouts, classes, evaluation. Many drop out. If you make it, you go to an undisclosed location for intense navigation and stress testing.
They want guys who can do the hard physical things but also introspect, learn from mistakes, and grow.
Then comes the individual training course—nine to fourteen months—followed by SERE training, small-unit tactics, and Raider Spirit: weeks with no sleep, constant movement, and evaluation.
You’re tested constantly so that when you finish, you know you can handle real missions.
Physical and Mental Formation
Jason Braaten: Is the training primarily physical at first and then mental, or is it both throughout?
Jarryd Allison: It’s both, but the early phases are harder physically. Once you survive that crucible, graduation rates increase. You’ve proven to yourself you can endure.
Later, performance matters more: shooting, leadership, judgment. Physical stress never goes away, but it’s balanced with reflection.
Jason Braaten: What kind of interaction do you have with instructors?
Jarryd Allison: Constant evaluation. Instructors teach standards and then test you in semi-real situations. Peers evaluate you too. Performance data goes into pass/fail boards. Decisions are collective.
Why Standards Matter
Jason Braaten: Having been part of this high-performance organization, what does it look like on our side, where the stakes are eternal souls?
Jarryd Allison: If the stakes are higher, shouldn’t training be stricter?
In MARSOC there’s a baseline standard. Context changes, but the foundation is solid. In the LCMS, you see wide variation. Some congregations are very confessional; others abandon the liturgy.
MARSOC attrition is high to ensure quality. Seminary attrition is low, but post-graduation loss is high. It feels unfocused.
Dave Peterson: We lost the old St. Louis Seminary that produced deep theological scholars. Now we have two practical seminaries. There’s only so much you can do in four years.
Chrysostom warned that ordaining someone unfit for ministry brings judgment. Seminaries should instill fear and respect for the office.
Envy, Excellence, and Brotherhood
Jason Braaten: Was there competition in training?
Jarryd Allison: There’s envy, because we’re human. But the best guys rise to the top because you trust them. One guy would always take your pack if you struggled. You envied him, but you ranked him first because you wanted him on your team.
Weak performers made life harder. You didn’t want them on missions. Envy exists, but excellence matters more.
Dave Peterson: Ministry has envy too, but often unhealthy. Hardship can foster camaraderie, but congregations sometimes function like franchises and pastors like entrepreneurs.
The Problem of Institutional Memory
Jason Braaten: Jarryd, what was your main criticism in your articles?
Dave Peterson: The Synod doesn’t pass on lessons learned. Competent pastors grow locally, but there’s no corporate memory.
MARSOC has constant cycles of training, deployment, and evaluation. We’re “deployed” all the time, but without that structure.
Jason Braaten: What about lay evaluation?
Dave Peterson: Laypeople are often too nice. Pastors should be evaluated on visitation, prayer, catechesis, preaching. The bar is often too low.
Jarryd Allison: Teaching is hard. Baptism is easy. Laypeople need tools to evaluate sermons and pastors need humility to receive feedback.
Peer Review and Stress Testing
Jason Braaten: How did peer reviews work?
Jarryd Allison: Numeric rankings after each phase. Everyone ranked everyone. Public totals. It revealed bias and forced self-reflection.
Dave Peterson: We could ask: who would you want as your mother’s pastor? Your children’s pastor? That reveals problems.
We should also use scenarios—hostile councils, dying parishioners questioning faith—to prepare men realistically.
Shared Responsibility
Jason Braaten: What is our duty toward supervisors and Synod?
Jarryd Allison: Bottom-up and top-down. Local teams and institutional standards must meet in the middle.
Dave Peterson: It starts personally. Want to improve. Participate. Suffer together. Don’t quit. Raise standards with kindness.
Final Exhortations
Jason Braaten: Final thoughts?
Jarryd Allison: Laypeople: pray, read Scripture, catechize your children. Pastors: teach relentlessly. Districts: support and critique. Seminaries: set and enforce standards.
Dave Peterson: We need humility, perseverance, and gentleness. No more quitting.
Jason Braaten: We need to believe the stakes are eternal and act like it.
A friend wisely commented to me: "If there is a temporal solution, we should strive for it. However, some matters must be left to the will of God. It is in this will that we trust." The Office is Divine. The Lord does provide. This isn't an excuse for deficiencies. Still, it is a good reminder of what we are dealing with and of our limits.
Pr. Petersen did a splendid job of speaking as a true Seelsorger.
The military image doesn't work for the pastoral office. While one does find the "militia Christi" image in the early church and in hymnody ("all newborn soldiers of the Crucified," "stand up, stand up for Jesus, ye soldiers of the Cross"), it is not a biblical metaphor except when looking at the soldier's equipment (Ephesians 6), and always with reference to the baptized priesthood of believers not the ordained ministry of Word and Sacrament. "Shepherd" is the dominant image and should remain so when speaking of "pastoral formation" and the pastoral office in general. Leave the military to the ordo politicus of the temporal kingdom, where it belongs.